In this episode of Chance Conversations, Conor and I interview Shoshana Rosenberg, co-founder of Logical AI Governance and co-founder of Women in AI Governance.
Good Bosses Can Guide Us: We kick off by touching on significant career influences in Shoshana’s life, including what she has learned from supportive, inspiring leaders who let her take chances outside of what was listed on the job spec. We then discuss one of Shoshana’s many passions: operationalizing AI governance and her PRISM framework, as well as her passion for fostering an inclusive AI community.
DEI, Digital Agency & Explainability: Shoshana discusses her journey, including the founding of SafePorter, a DEI tool suite with a privacy-by-design approach, and the importance in recognizing a right of ‘digital agency’ when it comes to personal information and data.
For Shoshana, digital agency is interlinked with explainability, particularly with regards to AI and algorithmic decision making. Here we discuss the distinctions between technical ‘explainability’ or understandability (like the model weights, data provenance & architecture), versus explainability when it comes to context, controls, and the decision-making processes that models undertake.
On Writing a Book: Did you know Shoshana wants to write a book? According to Conor’s mom, “we all have at least one book in us”, but in the case of Shoshana, I suspect she’s actually going to write that book (or books). We even mused about a collaborative fiction book with other privacy pros, which sounds like fun. Maybe I can write a cat-privacy themed haiku?
On Fear, Bravery, Trust and Taking Risks: Shoshana offers some sage advice to a younger version of herself about not being afraid to go after things, even if it’s not the ideal (or initial) path you expected. Then she turns the question back on us! We also talk about trust, and what bravery means in many different contexts. It gets very philosophical, y’all.
AI Governance & Recycled Air: She offers insights into the future of AI governance, what it means to her, and the pernicious problem of ‘recycled air’ — where people fall back to saying and relying on the comfortable and familiar, rather than taking a bold stance or saying something genuinely unique or different. As Shoshana reminds us ‘We’re in the Mining Era’ — and no, we’re not talking about gold or crypto.
Finally on to Low Tech Problems, Solutions, and Back to Trust: We end with a brief discussion of the importance of handling low-tech problems (aka, we should be worried less about Terminator AI, and more about social engineering), and the value of low-tech solutions. There may, or may not be a product plug here, but we do go back to the all-important question of trust.
It was a great conversation, and we had a wonderful time chatting with Shoshana.
Also, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that I recently had the opportunity to take Shoshana’s excellent August AI Leadership bootcamp. Shoshana ran us through the paces, where we learned the value of logical frameworks, including her company’s signature LEARN and PRISM methodologies.
Shoshana’s courses are vibrant, interactive, and delightfully intimate course, and one I highly recommend to other AI leaders (or those looking to become AI leaders!). You’ll learn a lot, though I suspect it’s a small tip of the huge iceberg of knowledge that Shoshana has.
Timeline:
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:22 Shoshana's Background and Achievements
00:41 Women in AI Governance
01:01 SafePorter and Privacy by Design
02:00 Ground Rules for the Conversation
03:49 Career Highlights and Mentorship
10:04 Personal Goals and Writing a Book
12:23 Future of Technology and AI Governance
17:18 Explainability vs. Understandability
20:31 Advice to our Younger Selves
21:01 Navigating Career Paths: Trusting the Journey
22:21 Embracing Risks and Learning from Mistakes
23:18 The Importance of Trust and Vulnerability
24:16 The Role of Cynicism and Trust in Professional Life
25:48 Personal Growth and Self-Trust
28:27 The Value of Diverse Perspectives
31:13 Underhyped Aspects of Technology and Security
35:45 Final Thoughts and Reflections
Episode 3: Until There are Dragons: Shoshana Rosenberg